Allegheny Student Government

Eliminating grades for freshman year sounds like a horrible idea. Where would students, many of whom have never had the freedom of being away from home without parental supervision, find the motivation to attend classes and taken them seriously? As much as people like the idea of "learning for the sake of learning," it is an unreasonable expectation that an entire class of students would feel this way.

Regarding scheduling a break during the day: Our college wants us to pursue interests and discover "unique combinations" in our lives. I believe that this mindset is very beneficial and I already don't feel that I have enough time during the day to do all that I'd like to do. By designating a block of "free time," the school would make many students schedules harder to create by removing a chunk of time with which students could meet with clubs, teams, jobs, etc. This limits students' involvement across all aspects of college. Part of growing up is learning time management. By creating a "free period" during the day, I feel that the school would be extending too much control into how we students manage our time and plan our day.

I would have to agree that not having grades the first year of school is a very bad idea. Students need to learn about professors' expectations: what is A/B quality work? How much time do I need to put into this paper? Should I read this more than once? If students are not graded, how are they supposed to evaluate their progress or gain the motivation to do their work?

Regarding the idea of scheduling a time where no class can be scheduled: I think that this is a nice idea in theory. However, as said above, students are already over-scheduled. Therefore, if they are not allowed to schedule things during a certain part of the day, they will be required to run a tighter schedule. In addition, during this "free time" areas such as the library, the campus center and the gym will most likely be overcrowded. I think that if Allegheny wants to give students some free time, it might be nice to have a day off on a holiday that falls during the week. I think that students would not only appreciate the day off, but they would use it wisely.

I fully agree with what Jamie has said regarding the scheduled "free time." I do think, though, that it would be nice if the College encouraged its faculty to avoid scheduling class sessions during the lunch and dinner hours. Several of the 600 pre-comp classes, for example, are typically scheduled during the lunch hour because students usually don't have class during that time...which is great, but how/when are we supposed to eat? I have also had classes that have involved additional components (i.e. weekly film screenings) that are scheduled in the evening outside of the class hours. I don't necessarily have an objection to this, but it would be nice if faculty were required to list these additional components (and their time slots) on WebAdvisor so that we could be aware of them before deciding whether to register for the class, as opposed to not finding out until you receive the syllabus on the first day.

I also agree with what Jamie has said about grades. I think that it's important for students to understand what faculty expect and what is considered quality, college-level work. I worry that First Year students might suffer as a result of not learning these expectations early in their college careers.

I do think, though, that the idea of changing the grading system isn't entirely without merit. Yale Law School, for example, abolished traditional grades several decades ago and now uses a system of "Honors/Pass/Low Pass/No Pass." This, they believe, encourages students to focus more on learning than on GPAs, rankings, etc, while still providing the faculty with a means of evaluating students. In some ways, it's not really that different from an ABCDF grading system: It still places students into several groups according to the calibre of their work, but removes some of the negative stigma associated with traditional grades. I think it also allows the school's--and its students'--stellar academic reputations to speak for themselves.

So, if we're interested in altering the grading system for First Years (or for all of our students), I think that Yale could serve as a model for how this can be done successfully (while still providing a means for evaluation).

I would just like to say that I agree that we should still have grades freshmen year. However, that being said, I like what Zack mentions about alternative grading systems. I would be interested to see what alternatives we could come up with. The reason I say this is because I do feel that there is more pressure for people nowadays to approach their classes only for the A and not necessarily for the learning. This is good and all, but I think that a person can still get an A and not necessarily learn much at all. I do not know if I would want to pick my doctors just based on their college grades. It seems that somehow, grades and tests have become so important in today's society that not much emphasis is put actually on the learning experience and how organic it can be. I feel that sometimes education has dealt more with a quantitative measurement and not a qualitative measurement. It is for this reason that I like experiential learning because it allows for more of a qualitative learning atmosphere, but I understand this can not be done for all subjects. I have always just struggled with the idea that sometimes it seems that things are being taught more for us to pass a test and not for us to not only take the knowledge but be able to mold and sort of make it our own and help us form opinions. In having grades, it seems that it may sometimes hinder people from taking a class that they might know that they may not be as good at but they still have an interest in. This fear keeps them from classes that could actually teach them more because it is a bit out of their comfort zone and they may learn a thing about themselves in the process. Well, these may be a lot of tossed together thoughts, so I apologize. This is something I have thought about before but I am always stuck on what type of system could be better.

I know we are able to take credit/no credit courses, and that at least gives students the opportunity to take a class maybe different from the norm for them. I think it would just be interesting to look at how many students take advantage of this option. Then maybe ask why this number is what it is and if this option to take classes credit/no credit is a good option and if so is it effective?

Good thoughts, mine may be too idealistic and not practical, but I am an idealist. So here it goes!

First, what if students worked with their Academic Adviser to develop their own personal grading rubric. They would work on developing these rubrics in the first three weeks of FS class. Students would explore what Academic Success means to them, understand their strengths and weaknesses and work to implement this into their rubric. Additionally, they would be able to develop an understanding of what an A, B, C or maybe even a D means to them. This would make their work more meaningful and they would realize that they are working for themselves, and not for their professors. This would promote self-understanding, awareness and it promotes self-directed learning.

Secondly, what if in their was an hour set aside that did not allow for classes to be scheduled, but organizations met. If all organizations met at the same time, more collaboration would be possible because more student orgs could work together, when nobody has class--just a thought, they do this at schools such as Texas A&M--it helps to limit over programming and it encourages collaboration!

Just some food for thought! Good Night!

I would just like to second what Ryan mentioned about learning for the sake of learning as opposed to 'learning' for the sake of a GPA. I totally agree that more emphasis should be placed on actual learning, maybe by involving application-based assessments, as opposed to straight recall tests and papers.

In addition, I would also like to see those extra class requirements mentioned above listed on Webadvisor. I know when I took Physics 101 we had workshop for an hour and a half on Tuesday nights. Like Zack, I do not object to these extra requirements at all, but would like to see them on Webadvisor to make it easier to schedule and plan for the upcoming semester.